tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9885290.post4064238973168872373..comments2023-09-29T19:49:18.346+08:00Comments on Malc's Blog: Behave or be punished: choose, pleaseMalcolmhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18156162412655551672noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9885290.post-77957431716288542992013-01-04T09:37:00.224+08:002013-01-04T09:37:00.224+08:00Hello Bas,I enjoyed your last blog post very much....Hello Bas,I enjoyed your last blog post very much.<br /><br />Of course, we cannot prove the non-existence of free will, it's notoriously difficult to prove the non-existence of anything. But as far as I know, nobody has yet succeeded in proving its existence, either. So it's safer to assume that it doesn't exist. We just bumble happily along feeling that we have it, it's just a comforting thought. (Though actually it can be pretty <i>un</i>comfortable at times, agonising over whether we have made the right choice.) <br /><br /><br />The majority isn't <i>always</i> wrong - just a lot of the time. That great humourist Mark Twain thought so, too!Malcolmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18156162412655551672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9885290.post-74893384534119739662013-01-03T22:18:48.947+08:002013-01-03T22:18:48.947+08:00Malc, I'm glad to see that you cannot prove th...Malc, I'm glad to see that you cannot prove that free will does not exist. Let's be honest, it would need some thinking to make up the evidence, and there's nobody to think.<br />But I'm willing to compromise with all you figments of my imagination: My free will is the only free will in the Universe and actually I'm the one who does all the thinking.<br />Don't even try to prove me wrong. <br />Oh yes, and the majority is always wrong!Bashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15378333708912059004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9885290.post-84506523157644990692013-01-02T14:45:44.460+08:002013-01-02T14:45:44.460+08:00I think there is a difference between a habitual a...I think there is a difference between a habitual action that goes awry (like you making the practiced motion of moving to rinse your brush and putting it in the tea instead) and making a choice about something. The difference to me being that at some point before the action is taken, you are aware of that decision. In the watercolor example you are consciously aware after the habitual action goes awry. Many of the things we do in every day life are not controlled by our higher reasoning which I would think is where the idea of the will is involved. <br /><br />The reason I called it "unconsciously choosing" is because of you indicating in your blog that the brain shows we are about to choose before we are aware of choosing. I would say that when we become conscious of that choice, that is what we would call choosing, because we are unaware of what our brain went through to get to that choice. We may interpret the choice as being made with our conscious mind, when in fact it is being made by our brain outside of our conscious knowledge. Ever gone to sleep with a problem and woken up with a solution? You are unconscious and you are unaware of the solution until you are conscious.<br /><br />Now as to the question of whether you can consciously disagree with your unconscious choice. I think that is yes, that happens and I would argue it happens all the time. Haven't you ever come to a decision and then debated with yourself about whether or not to do it? Ever lied awake at night going over the possible solutions to a problem? Ever rehearsed over and over what you want to say to someone you with whom you are upset each time polishing it and finding that the version you started with has changed drastically in the final version? Perhaps this is evidence of the interplay between the conscious and unconscious mind. <br /><br />Cygnethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15158946287178566956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9885290.post-34888745252051812662013-01-02T13:13:46.467+08:002013-01-02T13:13:46.467+08:00@Cygnet - Yes, I hadn't thought of that. If we...@Cygnet - Yes, I hadn't thought of that. If we are "unconsciously choosing", I am not sure how that would be a choice in the way we usually understand the word. If I make a choice unconsciously, as it were without my knowledge, can it be said to be <i>my</i> choice? I might consciously disagree with that choice, might I not? I do many things unconsciously that I have no conscious intention of doing, don't you have the same experience? Suppose that while doing some watercolour painting I dip my brush in my adjacent cup of tea instead of in the water. Was that my choice?Malcolmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18156162412655551672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9885290.post-57091805294095248872013-01-02T12:58:05.973+08:002013-01-02T12:58:05.973+08:00You wrote: Our brains apparently show indications ...You wrote: Our brains apparently show indications of what we are about to "choose" some measurable time before we are aware of choosing. <br /><br />Could this not be interpreted as we are unconsciously choosing before we are consciously aware of doing so? The decision to act is still generated by the person doing the choosing; right? Or are you implying that the choice was placed there by something outside ourselves?<br /><br />If we are in fact doing the choosing, is it perhaps previous conscious thoughts that influence our future decisions even if the decisions are made unconsciously in the moment?Cygnethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15158946287178566956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9885290.post-92118369383697166312013-01-02T11:08:10.379+08:002013-01-02T11:08:10.379+08:00Thank you, sixofthebest.
Descartes may have bee...Thank you, sixofthebest. <br /><br />Descartes may have been mistaken in assuming that <i>he</i> was doing the thinking. Thoughts arose that presented themselves to his awareness, and he understandably assumed they were "his" thoughts. It seems to me that he had already assumed his own existence, in order to be able to say he was the originator of those thoughts.<br /><br />Awareness certainly exists, and it seems to be accessible to the human body-mind organism, but that is as far as I can go, at the moment.<br /><br />Malcolmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18156162412655551672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9885290.post-24861182658210989812013-01-02T03:56:13.210+08:002013-01-02T03:56:13.210+08:00My answer to these philosophical questions comes f...My answer to these philosophical questions comes from the French philospher. Descartes. He said. "I think, therefore I am". In my humble opinion, that is the best mankind can do.sixofthebestnoreply@blogger.com